Is red meat bad for dwarf hamsters?

[mittensmalice]

Hi! I'm unsure if this is the right place to post this but I'd like to enquire if red meat such as Venison (cooked of course, then freeze dried) is bad for hammies? A vet I visited yesterday told me that apparently hamster organs can't digest/process red meat properly and that it will increase the risk of heart disease. She also said that red meats are high in saturated fat and since hamsters are prone to heart failure etc.
Can anyone verify if this is true? Because the vet also admitted she does not specialise in hamsters, so I'm unsure if the information is credible or not...
Thank you!

[daisy]

I've never heard anything like that specific to hamsters. She might have just been referencing the possible effects of saturated fat in humans and other species and generalising to hamsters, but insects contain saturated fat too. I wouldn't take it too seriously personally. Biological comparisons between species are often valid, but not always. For example, gerbils don't develop the same artery plaques in response to high cholesterol that humans do (which is the major cause of heart disease in humans), though I don't have specific information about hamsters.

Red meat isn't the kind of thing I would feed a hamster very often just because it's not a natural part of their diet, but I do feed a bit of cooked beef once in a while and I don't think that can do any harm. Chicken is likely a better choice if you want to feed some meat, but I wouldn't really worry too much about the effects of occasional treats. The majority of fat in a hamster's diet should come from plant sources in any case, as plant fats are mostly free of cholesterol and saturated fat.

[Kikya]

Hi! I'm unsure if this is the right place to post this but I'd like to enquire if red meat such as Venison (cooked of course, then freeze dried) is bad for hammies? A vet I visited yesterday told me that apparently hamster organs can't digest/process red meat properly and that it will increase the risk of heart disease. She also said that red meats are high in saturated fat and since hamsters are prone to heart failure etc.
Can anyone verify if this is true? Because the vet also admitted she does not specialise in hamsters, so I'm unsure if the information is credible or not...
Thank you!

That is not sound information. She's likely one of those vets who thinks that hamsters are herbivores or eat what guinea pigs do. I've seen that in quite a few vets that aren't exotics. Even exotic vets I've had to correct on their assumptions of diet. Thinking that hay is something a hamster would eat...

Also, red meat does not cause heart disease in humans. Humans have been eating red meat for their entire existence on this planet. Highly processed seed oils (like canola oil or corn oil) and refined sugars on the other hand, we have seen a sharp increase in heart related illness since those came into the main stream food supply.

A health hamster diet is one that is omnivorous, with a high percentages of grasses and seeds, a smaller percentage of fats and proteins and fiber. Humans on the other hand need a good percentage of meats, cheeses, and equal amount of veggies and lesser amount of fruit - fermented or cooked veggies if possible since we don't have the ability to break down plant matter as well as a herbivore or even as another omnivore like a hamster.

I occasionally feed meats as a treat, red or white, depending on what I have on hand. But the amount you give a hamster is a tiny, tiny amount, like the size of your nail. Unless the hamster will not eat mealworms or other insects, then I give freeze dried chicken as a protein booster with their regular seed mix.

Don't give them any processed meats though! Like bacon or deli meats, they have a lot of salt on them, too much for little hamster kidneys. Just plain meat, like a tiny bit of fresh chicken breast, cooked in nothing, no oils or butter.

[Lillias]

It's fine as a treat. From what I've read, dwarf hamsters have a tendency to develop high cholesterol much like humans, so they shouldn't be eating red meat on a daily basis. If I were buying an animal protein for a hamster, I'd go for insects or poultry, but the odd piece of unseasoned red meat isn't harmful. Their main diet should be mostly grains and seeds. However, wild hamsters will scavenge, so meat isn't foreign to them.

[Kikya]

It's fine as a treat. From what I've read, dwarf hamsters have a tendency to develop high cholesterol much like humans, so they shouldn't be eating red meat on a daily basis. If I were buying an animal protein for a hamster, I'd go for insects or poultry, but the odd piece of unseasoned red meat isn't harmful. Their main diet should be mostly grains and seeds. However, wild hamsters will scavenge, so meat isn't foreign to them.

I'd be very interested to see the information on this on dwarf hamsters. I would speculate, it's because in the wild they can have a diet of as high as 80% insects, which would naturally give them a higher cholesterol level. That doesn't mean it's detrimental to them.

High cholesterol doesn't equal heart disease. Your brain is made up of 30-40% cholesterol, without cholesterol your body cannot produce certain hormones, your nerve system cannot exist without cholesterol, etc.

I wish we had some data on hamsters with heart disease and what they ate as their diet. My theory is the hamsters on a pelleted diet or high processed seed oil diet would be more likely to have heart disease issues.

[Lillias]

It was years ago when I read that info, so I'm not sure I can find it again. Basically, it said that dwarf hamsters were a good fit for studies on high cholesterol (and on ways to reduce cholesterol) because they also get high cholesterol. As far as I know, this is also why hamsters are NOT good feeders for snakes; they're high in fat compared to rats and mice. This particular study made no claims (as far as I remember) about either wild hamsters or heart disease. So those are areas for further research.

There are certainly other reasons to keep dietary fat levels at a reasonable percentage (pet hamsters don't hunt for food or run from predators, so they aren't necessarily as active as wild hamsters), but there's leeway in that percentage. My hamsters preferred chicken to beef, but I've never offered venison. That's posh.

High cholesterol doesn't equal heart disease. Your brain is made up of 30-40% cholesterol, without cholesterol your body cannot produce certain hormones, your nerve system cannot exist without cholesterol, etc.

The human body synthesizes cholesterol. We don't need to go out of our way to eat it. I'm not sure how that mechanism functions in hamsters.

[Kikya]

Spoiler

The human body synthesizes cholesterol. We don't need to go out of our way to eat it. I'm not sure how that mechanism functions in hamsters.

Actually, it doesn't. What the body does do is cannibalize other parts of the body made of cholesterol, such as your fat stores, your nerves and finally your brain. People that do not consume animal fats have extremely low cholesterol. Anorexics and long term vegans have been shown in studies to have cognitive decline and even brain shrinkage, when compared to omnivorous diets.

Dwarf hamsters in the wild eat diets estimated at 60-80% of insects, which of course naturally means they have higher cholesterol levels. In a laboratory setting eating lab blocks, they would not be getting a diet with any kind of animal fat at all. So if captive hamsters are developing heart disease, I would think that the hydrogenated seed oils were more likely the culprits.

The current recommendations of how to feed dwarf hamsters are far lower than that of their wild counterparts. I often wonder if we should be giving them more and not treating them like Syrian hamsters. We do alter the protein recommendations slightly but only a few %. Not to mention that venison is a very lean meat in comparison to your average cow meat at the store, so cholesterol is hardly an issue for a tiny piece of vension.

The study that I believe you referenced was from 2009, which the conclusion was "In view that hamsters synthesize and excrete cholesterol and bile acids in a manner similar to that in humans, it is concluded that hamsters but not rats shall be chosen as a model to study efficacy of cholesterol-lowering functional foods." They did only measure blood serum levels of cholesterol, which doesn't measure any heart disease. Many people have "high" cholesterol levels and no heart disease.

The hamsters in that study were golden hamsters, not dwarves so maybe there was a different study that I didn't see? Syrian hamsters eat a diet much lower amount of insects in comparison to dwarf hamsters, so I could see the effect of being given a diet to artificially increase their cholesterol levels so they could be studied being greater in Syrian hamsters than in dwarves.

[Lillias]

I looked into it more, and venison has much less saturated fat than I realized, so it should be fine (properly cooked). So the main question is whether your hamster will like it.


The relationship between dietary cholesterol and cholesterol levels in the blood is not straightforward. You can have high cholesterol without consuming cholesterol (vegans can have high cholesterol). People who have too low of a cholesterol level either have an underlying condition or are malnourished in other ways. We need to eat fat, but not specifically cholesterol. The liver makes enough. Too much of the wrong fat over time can also shrink your brain. There are certainly other nutrient needs that are difficult to fulfill with a plant-based diet.

It was definitely a dwarf study, not that one.

There's a genetic component contributing to heart disease in pet hamsters. Despite improvements to diet (for some hamsters at least), we haven't increased the lifespan of pet hamsters. Better diet certainly improves quality of life, but they aren't living longer than hamsters twenty years ago when all hamster foods were mediocre to terrible.

I suspect heart disease isn't as much of an issue in wild hamsters. Inbreeding and careless breeding caused congenital heart problems in domestic Syrian hamsters. Late in life heart disease (such as might be caused or worsened by diet) isn't a concern because wild hamsters don't live into their golden years anyway.

[Kikya]

The relationship between dietary cholesterol and cholesterol levels in the blood is not straightforward. You can have high cholesterol without consuming cholesterol (vegans can have high cholesterol). People who have too low of a cholesterol level either have an underlying condition or are malnourished in other ways. We need to eat fat, but not specifically cholesterol. The liver makes enough. Too much of the wrong fat over time can also shrink your brain. There are certainly other nutrient needs that are difficult to fulfill with a plant-based diet.

The body can make cholesterol if you give it the building blocks (saturated fats) by consuming it, not on it's own. Animal fats specifically. If you eat a diet entirely made up of plants, your body will eat itself to get the cholesterol it needs to function.

I read this excerpt from a doctor:
“There’s a funny misnomer out there that only 20% of your body’s cholesterol comes from the food you eat. While that may be true, that’s kind of like saying, ‘I never eat pizza because I don’t order pizza in.’ But if I go to the grocery store and buy pizza dough, tomato sauce, cheese, and pepperoni, and I'm making pizza at home—isn't that the same thing?”

I agree that highly processed seed oils will shrink your brain, along with a lack of b12.


It was definitely a dwarf study, not that one.

I'll keep looking! You've inspired me to comply a list of studies!

There's a genetic component contributing to heart disease in pet hamsters. Despite improvements to diet (for some hamsters at least), we haven't increased the lifespan of pet hamsters. Better diet certainly improves quality of life, but they aren't living longer than hamsters twenty years ago when all hamster foods were mediocre to terrible.

I suspect heart disease isn't as much of an issue in wild hamsters. Inbreeding and careless breeding caused congenital heart problems in domestic Syrian hamsters. Late in life heart disease (such as might be caused or worsened by diet) isn't a concern because wild hamsters don't live into their golden years anyway.

I certainly agree that bad genetics could be a contributor, we don't have enough data to say for sure either way